In this episode we speak with Justin Brooke of DMBI Online. We chat about how to drive traffic using data-driven online advertising campaigns and strategies. This episode is about generating traffic using a combo of Facebook, Retargeting, & Email Advertising.
Justin Brooke is the founder of DMBI Online , his online marketing strategies are responsible for tens of millions of dollars in revenue from website traffic that results to higher conversions!
- Zoobie the Newbie – Justin’s back story.
- Why traffic – why pay for traffic?
- Data-Driven Online Advertising – what’s the catch?
THE FULL TRANSCRIPT
Intro: Welcome to the brave new world of cost-effective communications, tips, trips and tricks. How-to’s, why-to’s and what not to do’s and using the power of web-based content marketing to easily promote whatever you’d like. Welcome to The Multimedia Marketing Show with Jake Hower.
Jake: Welcome back to the show listeners. I’m your host Jake Hower. This is episode 24 of The Multimedia Marketing Show. In this episode we’re going to be speaking with someone who’s an expert in driving traffics. Stay tuned for that. Today’s show guest is someone that I come across from a referral in my own network. I believe it was Chris Evans referred me to Justin Brooke and I was following him on Facebook for probably 3 or 4 months and every single post that I receive from him or that appeared in my news feed was full of, I guess you could say epic content about driving traffic. It just got to the point where I couldn’t not invite him on the show to discuss how he does this for his customers and for his own business.
Today’s episode we’re speaking with Justin Brooke from Pixel Trakk and IMScalable so let’s get stuck into that interview right away.
Segue: We’ll be right back with more of The Multimedia Marketing Show but first this suggestion. Make sure that you don’t miss a single episode by subscribing to us via iTunes and don’t forget to like Jake on Facebook, follow him on Twitter and sign up for e-mail notifications at multimediamarketingshow.com then you’ll be the first to know when new episodes are available. Now let’s get back to the Multimedia Marketing Show with Jake Hower.
Jake: Welcome back, listeners. As discussed in the top of the episode today’s guest is none other than Justin Brooke from Pixel Trakk. Justin, how are you?
Justin: I’m good man. How are you?
Jake: Fantastic. Now I must say Justin, I think I came across you through somebody in my network and I found you on Facebook and I have to say to that I needed to get you on this show because every single post that I saw on Facebook that you popped out there was just absolutely awesome. There’s so much information in there.
Justin: Thanks, thanks.
Jake: For our listeners your main focus of course is around traffic generation. How about you give our listeners a little bit of a history about you and what has brought you to where you are right now?
Justin: There’s a couple of stories that make up my whole past or my career getting started in this industry. The short version is that back in 2005 I got started, didn’t make money at all for 2 years, 2007 I landed an internship with Russell Brunson and went out there, worked with for 30 days for free and my job out there was to … He has this marketing library. He spent over a quarter million dollars buying like every course there is, every book, video just everything and my job was to go through these courses and write reviews so that he could create an affiliate review website of them and he called it Zoobie The Newbie.
I technically was kind of Zoobie The Newbie even though he’s modeled that for him and everything but I was the one writing those reviews, going through those courses and I was the newbie practicing them all. Anyways, I got like an education of a lifetime and when I came out of that, I was still broke. I had a website but I took what I learned in there. All I had was $60 to my name; I took that from half of my electric bill. I paid half the electric bill took $60 started a pathetic little Google AdWords campaign $2 a day selling a $35 video course and my first month I made 150 bucks. Paid back the electric bill, rolled the money back in, long story short doubled my money every single month for 11 or 12 months or something like that. I had a 6 figure business at the end of the year.
For me it was learning from a mentor, from a millionaire who’d already done it but really like traffic, buying traffic changed my life and so that’s why that’s my focus. That’s what I teach, it’s what I do, it’s what I live. I read and watch and do this stuff all day every day.
Jake: I think what was interesting for me is that you sort of have I guess you could say a hand in a lot of different markets but it seems to me that you sort of were initially almost like a blogger of types I would imagine.
Justin: Yeah, I would definitely call myself a blogger. It’s one of my main … I do a lot of paid traffic for my clients and that’s like what I sell. It’s also what I teach but how I make the most money is actual through content marketing, through my blogging and social media.
Jake: Your focus now is mainly around traffic. How about you just give us some perspective of your company now and how it’s broken up and how most of your money is made through your clients?
Justin: What I realized I had a real hard time in 2010. I just made a couple of bad decisions in a row and then they didn’t pan out. I took some risk and they didn’t pan out and ended up not having anything. I had no income stream. I was making 6 figures for 3 years before that and I had no income stream and then had to rebuild it all and what I really realized was that one, the information marketing industry had changed because now there was YouTube and there was a blog post about everything, tutorial about everything, there’s wikiHow. The information marketing industry had changed and I kind of put all my aches in that basket. I said, “That was never going to happen again.”
Services was easy for me to get some money going again and then I said I’ve got to have a software because I believe that tools are … There’s plenty of information out there but now everybody needs something to do with this information. They need tools and then they also do or some people just don’t want to do it themselves, they need services. I said, “All right, I’m going to service the traffic industry because that’s what I know best.” I’m going to have a tool, I’m going to have a training and I’m going to have a service that way like these decisions that I made in the past won’t ever hurt me again. It’s taking me a long time to like manage all three parts of that and get them all going and some of them were still coming online but that’s kind of how our business works. We have a tool, a training and a service. The service right now pays like 80% of the bills.
Jake: Now with the traffic buying that you’re doing for all your customer what is generally the goal? Is the goal most cases sales or you’re trying to help with lead generation for them?
Justin: Yeah, everybody always wants sales. It’s all about ROI. I believe that there’s a lot more out there. There’s a lot more than just ROI in sales, in marketing and that’s a whole another conversation. We could talk about that if you want but yeah, most people with sale, some people its leads but at the end of the day if they’re paying for traffic and I’m not making more than they’re paying then they’re not happy. My job is to make sure that you’re making more.
Jake: All right, no worries. Justin, most of our listeners out there so likely at least are listening in right now is always asking about, “How can I get more leads? How can I generate more customers for my business?” What I’d love to do in this interview is to run through a couple of different strategies that you are currently seeing that are working really well for yourself and also for your clients. How does that sound?
Justin: Yeah, absolutely.
Jake: All right, let’s start briefly with a look at some of the free traffic sources. What are the top 3 traffic sources that you see?
Justin: For me I think the top 3 traffic source is guest blogging and not just guest blogging but content syndication period. I belief that guest blogging is just a form of content syndication. Your content is being syndicated on somebody else’s blog but you could also put it up on Slide Share, you could put it up on was it Scribd or Dock Stock, you could put it up on YouTube. Just taking what your content is and I think a lot of people focus on content all on their own website because it’s like I made this, I want to hoard it but really the way you get people to your website is by having content all over the web that brings people back to your website. I don’t focus a lot on creating content for my website; I focus a lot on creating content that’s out there in the world that drives people back to my website.
Jake: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I think one of the best examples of this in action to me is the music industry. Now you look at records and iTunes and people consuming music, that’s essentially traffic generation for what most artists these days make their most money from and that’s their touring so that’s their live events and I think that’s a really good example of this strategy in action.
Justin: Absolutely. There’s tons and tons of market places and there’s tons of content channels out there and there’s just gobs and gobs of traffic at these places. If you look up the traffic for Slide Share and YouTube and all these other content places, their traffic is astronomical and it’s free for you to dive in there and start corralling these people back over to your website.
Jake: A couple of episode ago we had Clay Collins on from LeadPages and we spoke about …
Justin: What a genius he is.
Jake: Absolutely and I guess would that be then therefore what you say, landing pages is how you capture the traffic once you’ve driven them back to your site?
Justin: That’s one use of a landing page; probably one of the most popular uses of a landing page is to capture that traffic so that you can follow up with them. To me a landing page is just the page that the person lands on after they click your ad and your ad could be a blog post or a Podcast or whatever it may be. It’s where they land.
Jake: Right. Okay, I’m thinking of the questions that no doubt our listeners has in their mind right now and one of them a random guest posting. To me, guest posting or writing in general is hard to do. Do you have some sort of system that you use to actually produce content like that?
Justin: Yeah. I’m going to steal Marcus Sheridan’s system. It’s great, it’s simple, it’s easy. I’ve been doing something like it for years but he kind of just wrap it up in a better package. What I used to do is I would go and scour like Yahoo Answers or any of the answer sites and I would look for what questions people are asking about my topic. If I’m in the root beer niche and I’m talking about root beer I’m going to go and look up what are all the questions people have about root beer because I can guarantee you people are typing the question, the full question into Google trying to look for an answer and it’s so much easier to rank for a full question than it is for like a 1 or 2-word keyword and you could just start ranking for a lot of these questions over and over again, easy and then pull those people into your website and then they’ll go to other pages.
Marcus Sheridan’s system has come up with 52 questions that your market has. Now you have an entire years worth of weekly blog post, just answering the question. Do your research about that question, find out what the good answer is and then create a blog post that answers that questions, provides resources to it, links, tools, whatever and just make sure that that blog post is the best answer on the web for that question.
Jake: Yeah, that’s excellent. That’s really fantastic. Listen, Justin doesn’t actually know but Marcus was on episode 23 here so you can go back and listen in detail to that particular strategy he uses and …
Justin: Yeah, he probably talked about it.
Jake: Absolutely great adjustments. It’s a great strategy and it’s so easy to come up with content that way. Now let’s look at a couple other forms of free traffic. On a previous episode of Marketing Con Queso with Michelle Macphearson you detailed a number of different strategies that you say are working well for you now. Let’s have a look at one in particular, membership sites and how do you use membership sites to build your list?
Justin: Okay, I think I know what you’re talking about here. I call these the invisible squeeze page and what it is, a lot of times and there’s a lot of markets out there where asking for an e-mail address actually doesn’t work very well. If you look at the survival prepared market they don’t want to be giving out their information. They don’t want to be letting people know that they are a prepper hoarding all these food and gold and whatever. There’s other market out there as well where they’re really sensitive. What we do instead is we just say this is a free membership site and all you have to do is enter your e-mail, create a password and you’ll have access.
What did they do? They just entered their e-mail address and now you have them to be able to follow up with them. It’s basically a squeeze page. On a squeeze page you’re offering a piece of content in exchange for their e-mail. The only real difference in a membership site is you call it something different and you add a password.
Jake: Yeah and why do you think that works?
Justin: It’s just positioned differently. It sounds different. It’s less gimmicky. I think it’s less about hanging the carrot in front of somebody’s face and forcing them to give you the e-mail where I think the membership site, the perspective is that it has more value. You’re going to get all these stuff inside and all you have to do is become a member for free.
Jake: How much information do you think you would need to put in a membership site? I could probably answer that myself in fact, really you just got to answer your value proposition on your sales page.
Justin: Yeah that’s it really but I’ve done 1 with as little as 4 videos in there. It was about an hour’s worth of content and then there was just a bunch of links and resources and you got to make sure that when they get in there they’re happy. They like what they see.
Jake: This I guess, they say are complicated but they’re actually very easy to set up. WordPress natively allows you to password protect pages and that would be the simplest version of a membership site. Just having someone sign up to your e-mail at least and have the first order responder e-mail going back to them with the password for that page.
Justin: I’ve even done it simpler than that. I don’t want to say that like I manipulate people but people in general are sometimes they can be a little clueless. I’ve created forums in AWeber where it says e-mail, password, confirm password and name and then hit enter to submit it and then it just takes them to the page but there was actually no membership or whatever. They just filled out my opt in form and now I’ve taken them to the page, now every e-mail they get after that sends them back to that thing that looks like a membership site but it’s really just page out there on web.
Jake: Yeah, cool. I think that’s important to understand that because we don’t want to complicate it for at least then. We want them to know that it is actually easy to do.
Justin: Yeah and they are a member of something. They’re a member of this group of people.
Jake: No doubt, absolutely. As you say, I think this is the key. As long as you’re delivering value in my opinion, above and beyond what you actually promised that’s all you need to do.
Justin: If you’re collecting their e-mails and sell them off to some spammer and then you’re only delivering half a piece of content and trying to force them into a sale then like this whole technique doesn’t work but if you’re trying to provide value to people’s lives and you’re doing everything ethically and legally then this is all good stuff. It just helps you do it easier.
Jake: All right, I want to look at one more source of free traffic before we look at some of paid sources. This one is another one that you spoke on the same episode of Marketing Con Queso. It’s using software to build a list. We’ve seen these done, Clay did this fantastically well with the Welcome Gate and I believe you’re doing something similar with Pixel Trakk?
Justin: No, not anymore. We used to have a free trial but we’re not doing the free trial anymore just because it was getting abused too often. What I think the people can do a lot easier is there is a ton of free software out there on the web that people don’t know about. I know guys who have built a hundred thousand subscriber list just saying enter e-mail to get this plug in for your blog and they just went and found the plug in that was out there in the WordPress extensions or whatever that thing is called where there’s all the plug ins that you can search for. They just went and found a cool plug in. It was not really talked about very often but did a cool little feature and they just said enter your name and e-mail and I’ll give you this plug in. They just link over to the plug in directory and yeah.
These guys have built a huge list off of that or you can develop your own plug in. It only costs you a couple hundred dollars to get a plug in developed. You don’t need something that is like WP wish list to develop a plug in. You can develop a very simple plug in like Michelle Macphearson. She created one that just whenever you would roll over an image it would give you the option to pin that image and just a very simple little easy plug in and now she has something that she can offer on a squeeze page and people will opt in for a tool a lot more often than they will opt in for a piece of information or a free report, free video. Everybody’s doing free report, free video but when you can say free tool that like actually does something for you it’s a much higher perceived value.
Jake: That’s really interesting. I never actually thought of the fact that you can just been linking to free software but it makes a lot of sense. As you say, you essentially become the curator and the quality controller of these good plug ins so it makes a lot of sense.
Justin: Yeah, it all comes down to like our job. Whether you’re an affiliate, a blogger, whatever, I believe that our job is to be a problem solver. There’s people out there on the web that have a problem and they’re looking for a solution. Whether you sell a software or whether you’re a blogger, whether you’re an affiliate, whatever, your job is to say, “Hey, I know what problem you’re going through. I know the solution, here’s how to get it.” If you’re blogger you’re here’s how to get is a blog post. You’re just telling them here’s how to solve this problem.
Jake: Absolutely. All right, Justin. Let’s move up again and look at some of the paid traffic sources. Rather than confuse our listeners only really hone in on where they’re going to … Let’s really 80/20 this and let’s hone in on the number 1 or number 2 strategies for generating paid traffic at the moment. We’re using the best results at the moment.
Justin: Overall, I would say Facebook but there’s places that work better for different things. If it’s a dating offer using Plenty of Fish, they have a great advertising network over there at Plenty of Fish. It’s ads.pof.com. There’s certain, I like to call them like ponds that you would go fishing in. There’s certain ponds out there where you can catch a special type of fish but overall Facebook has half the world’s people on it and they’re spending half the day on there. It’s a pretty good place to start and there’s so many targeting options today that it’s just amazing what you can do on there.
Jake: Okay, cool. Let’s look at Facebook in particular. I do a little bit of Facebook advertising myself and I can certainly generate likes and I can generate comments but what I struggle to really generate is clicks through a lot of my ads. What’s your specialty with Facebook? Are you driving clicks and sales?
Justin: Yeah, we’re driving half drive sales. If I don’t drive sales then my clients fire me and what we do is a lot of times in the very beginning I’m trying to figure out how to word this the right way. There is not even the greatest advertisers in history have a homerun the first time they create an ad. It happens every once in a while. If you’re good and you know what you’re doing, you really study the market it happens. For the most part what you do is you create your hypothesis. It’s your best guest at what you think people will respond to. What we do is we put a lot of guesses up there. We think this angle, this angle, this angle, these are things that people are going to respond to and then we let the data tell us whether or not that’s true.
We put our best guesses up there, let the traffic run for a little while and then we go back and look at the data and say, “Okay, which of these ads got the most clicks? Which of them got the most sales?” Because sometimes the one that got the most clicks just was generating a lot of curiosity with a lot of buyers. We go and we look at the data and then the data tells us this is what makes people respond and we cut off the other stuff and just keep that.
Jake: Right, right. That to me sounds like it’s pretty important, the data. How do you track how well your ads are going?
Justin: There’s a lot of software out there. Google Analytics, Pixel Trakk, HyperTracker. There’s so many things out there. What’s most important is that you think about what you need out of the tracking tool. Do you need something that’s going to be super comprehensive, it’s going to show you everything, is going to be, have lots of support and lots of plug ins and stuff like that or do you need something that’s really fast, lightweight and simple? You got to think about what you need out of a tool and then go find the tool that fits you best.
Don’t like, “Oh, everybody says use Google Analytics so therefore I should use Google Analytics.” For some people Google Analytics is like using a chainsaw to shave your face. It’s just too powerful of a tool for the job where sometimes you need something that’s really easy and simple. There’s a lot out there different size. That’s the best advice I can give them.
Jake: I’d like to a little bit deeper on that. I know personally Google Analytics can get quite complex and I know a lot of our listeners it’s going to be, it will be a roadblock having to track with Google Analytics. Let’s look at the simple side of things. What’s the best way to keep it nice and simple but still accurate?
Justin: I’m going to be a little bias because my tool, pixeltrack.com that’s our angle as we believe. I believe and I built it for myself to be honest whether nobody else uses it in the world, I use it myself every single day. We’ve driven over a million clicks through it. What I wanted was, well I realized that I wasn’t tracking and split testing as much as I should be because the tools that I were using was so hard and complicated to use that I was just like, “Oh, I want to but then it’s going to take me an hour to do this and I got to read this book before,” and so I never would do it. I was like, “I need something that is just quick and simple and easy and I can whip up a split test in 2 minutes or I can just grab a tracking link and be on my way.”
I built that tool. I’ve spent probably about $1,200 at this point tweaking and building it and making it just how I want it to be. It started out like it was just going to be a couple hundred bucks but we’re tens of thousands of dollars into this thing now and I do believe it’s the easiest, simplest tool to use.
Jake: That sounds fantastic. Can you run us through how it works?
Justin: Yeah, sure. When you log in there’s only 1 button. I thought that was important. There’s other things that you can click on but there’s only 1 button and it says new campaign. When you click new campaign there’s 3 options.
You can either create a quick tracking link which is basically just takes your link to your webpage, creates a redirect that will start counting the clicks and then gives you a code to place on your conversion page. If you were tracking how many opt ins you are getting, you put the conversion code on your opt in confirmation page and you’d use the link to start sending your ads and now the Pixel Trakk tracking link will start counting all the clicks and then as people go to your page and opt in then the code say, “Hey, a person converted.” It starts counting how many conversions and if you’re doing a sale you can put in how much each sale is worth for you and then it will start counting your EPC.
That’s really important to me because how you make money with traffic, how profit is created like at a scientific level is, your EPC is your earnings per click, how much you’re earning on average per click that you get to your website and then you pay at a cost per click, CPC. If you’re paying 25 cents CPC and you’re earning on average of 50 cents CPC then you’re making money. Your job, sometimes in the beginning your CPC is higher than your EPC but your job is to do things on your landing page and in your sales funnel to increase your EPC and then you’re going to do things inside the ad network like create new ads and test different markets and different pictures and that lowers your CPC and as you lower the CPC and increase the EPC that gap in the middle is your ROI, your profit. As that gap expands that’s how you make more and more money and that’s the name of the game.
Jake: Brilliant, brilliant. I’ve just got a couple of technical questions to satisfy my own interest.
Justin: One second before we go in there. Just want to finish what the other 3 buttons are in there. There was quick tracking which is just a redirect link and tracks conversions and there’s a funnel tracking one where if you have like up sales and down sales it will track your lead, your front in, your up sale or your down sale so you could put multiple tracking codes in place and then you’ll see your conversions across and then there’s a split testing button where it just let’s you have like up to 5 different links and then it will rotate those links out for you. You can create 1 page duplicate the page with the different headline, put both pages in there and then you’re off and running. You can create a split testing like 2 minutes.
Jake: Okay. Not only then tracking the source of traffic you’re also tracking the actual page as well?
Jake: Fantastic. That’s good. One thing I wanted to satisfy my own curiosity was creating a campaign can you have multiple links or traffic sources for that one campaign with that one pace of tracking code?
Justin: Yeah, you could. I believe that every ad should have its own link and I consider everything an ad. Different blog post, the different e-mail and when you do that then you have granular level data that says this e-mail versus this e-mail. You can see like I have 9 conversions from here and 3 conversions from here therefore this one worked better. When you start using the same link for multiple sources now you can’t tell which source was actually a higher performing source.
Jake: I probably wasn’t as clear there. The tracking code for each of these links, do you get a unique piece of tracking code for every link or is it just the one piece of tracking code and you can have multiple links?
Justin: Currently it’s a different piece of tracking code for every link and I think it’s next month that we’ll have global pixel and that will mean you can have just 1 code on the page and lots of links because right now it’s getting where a lot of people have to put a lot of different codes and it’s cumbersome but that will be fixed next month.
Jake: That sounds great. I don’t at least to say I like an ad but you have a $1 test drive of Pixel Trakk I believe?
Justin: Yeah, there’s a dollar trial.
Jake: All right, let’s go back and look at Facebook. One thing I think I struggle with is working at your audience. What are the top things you can suggest to people in choosing the right audience or targeting the right audience with Facebook.
Justin: With Facebook targeting the right audience. That’s a good question. One, I would tell you to get a book. There’s a book out there called Killer Facebook Ads by Marty, man, I think it’s Weinstein. God, I hope I got his name right. It’s called Killer Facebook Ads. Anyways, this book is really really good. It goes in depth. I’m only going to be able to tell you about 5 minutes worth of tricks and tips but the book really goes in depth on that subject.
Basically what I do is I look for a couple of categories and some of the easy ones are … what is the broad category? If we’re looking at bloggers, if I’m trying to target blogger what books do they read and that will be one campaign. What fan pages might they be a fan of? That will be another campaign. What software do they use? That will be another campaign. What celebrities or gurus do they follow? That will be another campaign. That’s how I break it up. Sometimes in the beginning just as kind of like test and see if things are working I’ll just go create one campaign that has all those targets in there, all the books, all the media sources, fan pages, software, all that stuff in one and then just see, drive like a $100, $200 worth of traffic and just see if any sales happen, if any leads happen.
If none do then great, I didn’t have to do all the work of creating lots of different campaigns and lots of different tracking links and I didn’t have to work so hard. If I do see that there’s some sales happen, some leads happen now I’ll start breaking it down and getting really targeted with it because the more targeted you are the better your ads are going to work because it’s going to be more relevant and then the more you’ll be able to track the conversions and remove wasted spend.
Jake: Sure. That sounds fantastic. With your audience size, as you reduce the audience do clicks generally go up in cost?
Justin: Not really. I guess yes, there’s different audiences and the more targeted you try and get the more Facebook makes you pay and sometimes the less they make you pay because it’s really smaller ends or it’s just something that’s not very competitive but for the most part the cost of your clicks is dependent on your CTR. How well people are clicking on your ad. If a lot of people are clicking your ad then your cost for click will go down because Facebook likes a guy who is paying 20 cents per click but getting a hundred clicks versus somebody who’s paying a dollar per click and only getting 2 clicks.
Jake: Sure, that makes sense. All right, well let’s look at then the location because there are so many different locations. You can have your ad up here now. What’s working right now in terms of location of the ads?
Justin: Sponsored stories work really well and just for anybody who’s listening and might be a little bit newer, if you use power editor there’s 2 ways to create a Facebook ad. There’s the web interface which is what most people are familiar with. Log in to Facebook and then do it through the internet, through that screen but there’s also the power editor and the power editor you have to be using the Google Chrome browser. When you use that you’re able to pinpoint whether you want your ads to show up on mobile devices or all devices whether you want them to show up on the side or in the news feed, if you want to be a sponsored post to this. There’s just a lot of different options but the premium real estate is in the news feed.
The way you get in the news feed is through sponsored posts and promoted post is another one and then with mobile there is no side bar. When you’re targeting your ads to mobile then they’re showing up in the news feed for them.
Jake: That’s fantastic. That’s all great information. Justin, you’ve been so generous with both your time and the information you’ve shared today. Where can our listeners find out more about you?
Justin: I’ve got a blog where I blog about traffic. I call it This Ain’t Your Mama’s Traffic Blog. It’s over at IMScalable, that’s imscalable.com/blog. There’s a bunch of articles there already. Check it out. There’s stuff on how to measure your ROI on Facebook and how to get more conversions and stuff like that. On Facebook, just go to Facebook.com/trafficstrategies and I try to put a daily tip up there.
Jake: They’re all amazing. I do, I highly recommend both the blog and certainly Facebook as well. All right Justin, thank you very much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. I got a lot out of it and our listeners certainly will as well.
Justin: Thanks for giving me the chance to reach more people man. Thank you.